lodessa: lol (dr. who-martha-will cut you)
[personal profile] lodessa
Fandom, Entitlement, and Creator Hate

Not so long ago, I was discussing with [livejournal.com profile] sophia_helix how I've never really gotten creator hate. I mean sure I sometimes think that Ron D. Moore is utterly bonkers or just plain wrong and I think that Rob Thomas made some very poor choices and I hope he learned his lesson about fanservice, but that disappoints me in the show, it doesn't make he feel wrathful and betrayed. A lot of other people seem to take showrunner decisions (or even writer decisions that they blame on the showrunner) as a grave personal insult when they don't like them. They feel that Joss Whedon or Russell T. Davies or J.J Abrams owes them something and/or that their personal preferences and opinions actually effect writer decisions. Both these ideas seem so terribly entitled. Until you start personally financing a show, you don't have a right to demand anything from the show. And honestly, even if show runners are effected by what fandom as a whole is saying, it's unlikely they are reacting to you specifically and really I sort of wish they wouldn't react to fandom at all... because fanservice pretty much always turns out terribly (I'm looking at you Rob Thomas and Russell T. Davies). But really it comes down to this, sure I get upset about things that happen on shows. After all, I actually stopped watching The Office, mostly because of a minor character's plotline. But that's my choice and I can either decide to roll with the changes or stop watching the show, no one is making me be a fan. I'm not a yes woman. I look at my shows and texts critically, but I know my place in relation to these works is one of observer, not participant. It I want something done my way, I'd better do it myself.




The Doctor: Is the Doctor. I love how the fact that the Daleks keep resurfacing forces him to commit the same genocide that he is angsting about, over and over again. I love how he even tries to save Davros, because he's seen too much death. I love that in the end he is sad and alone, just like he was at the start of the season, talking to no one, all alone in the TARDIS.
Donna: Well the Doctor Donna was frankly awesome and Catherine Tate was spectacular and basically I loved the body of what happened with her and her total desire for Captain Jack. Obviously I didn't love the mindwipe, and had actually sort of been hoping she'd end up in the Alternate Universe with everyone, but it could have been worse. Donna is resilient and she makes the best of wherever she is. You see her and she's still herself and clearly still enjoying life, and the most problematic aspect of her life (her critical mother) has pretty much been sorted out (kind of like Rose's season 2 resolution got rid of the issue of poverty for the Tylers). Donna is plucky and clever and nothing they do changes that. We knew she was only going to last a season, and there are far worse ways to go. But my lack of real upset comes from two things: 1. It's Doctor Who, anyone can come back, anything can be undone, if Rose can come back from another dimension, the Master can survive the Time War and the Daleks can keep escaping certain extinction... they can get around this plot point should it ever serve them. 2. The fact that the Doctor was so worried about anything reminding her of him indicates that he couldn't really wipe her brain fully and that the Time Lord capacity is still there. Which means that, even without his memory, she is probably going to develop differently now that she would have otherwise. And possibly, the Time Lord aptitude isn't what was going to burn her up so much as the Doctor's memories and if she evolves with her own memories alone, she could still reach the awesome mental power. So unless she does show back up, that is what I am choosing to believe.

Harriet Jones: I was so happy to see her in this series. The character defamation that happened with her in season two has never sat well with me and I was seriously so glad to see her both be redeemed and stand her ground.
Jack: What's not to love? His boyfriend seemed less than thrilled about his running off to find the Doctor, but I was into it. Also I loved his interactions with everyone, including his hitting on Sarah Jane. I was sort of confused as to why Rose wasn't suprised he was alive, especially since they made a point of that fact that she didn't realize he was immortal. But i think the most interesting thing about Jack in the episode ends up being that fact that he basically seeks to re-gather companions for his own team. Martha and Mickey are awesome, but how much is it their connection to the Doctor that makes Jack want then near him?

Martha: I always love Martha. She is so competant and smart and driven. And I loved that she was willing to make the hard sacrifice and the fact that Martha and Jack are obviously in communication, possibly even hanging out, and seriously I am so thrilled by the idea of her on Torchwood that the show moved up like 5 spots on my to watch list. Martha never annoys me. As I pointed out to [livejournal.com profile] utopia83 recently while discussing how she and Nine would get along, Martha would never wander off. She doesn't latch on to unreasonable ideas about what should be done, she accesses things clinically but in a way that is gracious and humanitarian at heart, and she does what needs to be done, not matter how hard it may be.

Mickey: I'll admit I was more excited to see him than Rose, and I am probably halfway to being as excited about him being on Torchwood as Martha (which is quite a lot since she's my favorite). However, [livejournal.com profile] utopia83 brought up the valid issue of: what about Jake? To which I flippantly replied, "Obviously they broke up" and then added in a less light tone "possibly he died tragically". Which sort of would make sense. Before he stayed in the alternate universe because his grandma was still alive there. Even if she is dead, what makes this world any less empty for him? So maybe he's hoping to find Jake in this world.

Rose: When the AU episode ended and Bad Wolf was written everywhere it was awesome. For the first time since I found out almost a year ago that Rose was coming back I was sort of excited about it. But then she did nothing interesting and they certainly didn't follow up on the Bad Wolf thing and basically there was so reason for her to be back really. I was as sad as anyone when Season 2 ended but it was both too late to bring her back and the actual revival was so uninspired that it didn't seen worthwhile. And I didn't hate her having the Human Doctor by any means, but it was just such pure fanservice that I couldn't really feel behind it. I mean... I don't even read Doctor/Rose fic and I swear I've seen that fic before.

Sarah Jane: Is awesome. Period.



So maybe I've been playing quite a bit of Dungeons and Dragons since 4th Edition came out and I cut myself off from World of Warcraft and livejournal for a month and a half.

So all in all I really like 4th Edition. It's much more easily comprehensible than previous editions and simpler to play. It would definitely be a good time to bring in someone who has never played before. The customizable nature of the classes, while reeking a little of WoW influence, makes you feel more in control of your destiny. I also enjoy that, while a cleric is really nice to have, you don't actually need one.



Verthandi the Tiefling Fighter - I really wanted to try playing a brute force character as opposed to my usual caster (although I did play a Monk once in 3.5) and I've really enjoyed my hulk smash character. Admittedly, Tieflings are more intended to be rogues and such, but it doesn't seem to be hurting me too badly and I really wanted to play one. Mainly it is fun to run in and hit everything hard.

Teeyannah the Elven Ranger - I made this character on a whim, mostly to show my brother (who always plays a rogue or dual wielding prestige class) that the dual wielding melee Ranger was awesome. Honestly, she plays fairly similar to my Fighter. I ended up running both characters when [livejournal.com profile] sophia_helix and [livejournal.com profile] actoplasm couldn't make some of the sessions, and she developed more of a personality than the fighter. While the Fighter just wants to kill shit, the Ranger is at heart and elitist racist, who is committed to wiping out lesser beings. She's working with dwarves and a tielfling right now but if we were to succeed in getting rid of the kobolds and goblins she would turn on them too. She even chased down a traitorous elf that was supposed to be involved in the plot later on and kicked her ass for defiling the name of the race.


Also in our group (cycling in and out in some cases, for instance my elf never plays when the half elf is around) if you want to ask questions about how they play: Dwarven Paladin (Davis), Dwarven Wizard (Robert), Dwarven Cleric(Davis), Dwarven Ranger(Kyle-my brother), Human Warlock([livejournal.com profile] actoplasm), and Half-Elf Warlord([livejournal.com profile] sophia_helix.

My main complaint so far is a minor one that does not effect the mechanics of gameplay. It is about the new alignment system. You can no longer be lawful evil or chaotic good. Which makes me really sad. I miss chaotic neutral less as only dicks played that.

Ps. Yes, I'm back

Date: 2008-07-23 07:41 pm (UTC)
ext_13247: (Default)
From: [identity profile] novin-ha.livejournal.com
I agree with you on Doctor Who, except for my absolute hatred of what they did to Rose and the utter lameness of her reappearance. I can't be stoical about it, I think it was terribly bad. And the idea that she civilizes the Doctor2 just reminds me of the sexist trope of how women civilize men and I'm very much blah about the whole thing.

You know, I sort of do hate Moore for what he wanted to do with the show and was thankfully stopped from doing. It's not because he's not fulfilling my wishes - I don't feel entitled or whatever - but I do get angry when certain things happen...

I was excited most about Harriet Jones on Doctor Who. That was the only moment in the episode when I had tears in my eyes, actually...

OMG you're back!!! So happy to see you! ♥ How are you?!

Date: 2008-07-23 07:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lodessa.livejournal.com
The Rose thing was seriously just so lame that I am sort of pretending it never happened and Mickey came back alone and DoctorDonna fixed everything the end. I think it's fortunate that I've had 2 seasons of time to love other companions and not want Rose back, so I was expecting to hate it.

I have no idea what "Moore wanted to do to the show".

I totally did too.

So happy to see you too. Seriously I have missed you a ton. I'm a little stressed but pretty good. We just moved to a new apartment near Jeremy's work that is super nice and I am working on a new career plan. How are you?

Date: 2008-07-23 08:15 pm (UTC)
ext_13247: (Default)
From: [identity profile] novin-ha.livejournal.com
I have no idea what "Moore wanted to do to the show".

I wish I didn't :( I read a couple of interviews where some other possible plotlines were mentioned and they were stupid, sexist and exploitative, and Moore expressed disappointment over not getting to do them on the show. It just made me really eek about him as a person... But man, do I love BSG these days!

I wanted to love Rose's comeback. Alas :/

My family's flat is being renovated (I hate it while it lasts, but the flat will be so much nicer afterwards), I'm travelling a bit - going to visit [livejournal.com profile] girlupnorth in a couple of days, actually :D - and I finished my academic year with really good grades, so I'm quite happy in my life.

I missed you too. I mean, really, I have serious teleportation needs, because the two of us ought to get to hang out! :D

And as I was scanning and uploading a gazillion pictures while you were away, a link for you - yours truly in a zoo, with her grandma, some 17 years ago :D

http://pics.livejournal.com/novin_ha/pic/0001bdww

Date: 2008-07-23 09:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lodessa.livejournal.com
Ewww... this is why I try not to read stuff about these kind of things. I've definitely been having some sexism issues with Who this season nonetheless.

It just reeked so badly of fanservice to me that I couldn't even want it.

I still need to catch up on BSG. I got behind and then it was hard to catch up.

Good idea to travel during the construction. I am jealous. I wish I could go hang out with the two of you.

Someday we are seriously going to manage it, whether via teleportation or good old fashioned travel.

Awwwww! So cute.

Date: 2008-07-23 09:39 pm (UTC)
ext_13247: (Default)
From: [identity profile] novin-ha.livejournal.com
Do catch up! I really enjoyed this season, despite all the hype, and wrote a ton of stuff in Polish and one weird short piece in English about it ;D

I rewatched the entire four seasons in the last month and my love for Gaius and Roslin has grown to epic proportions. I also developed a much stronger relationship with Gaeta. I think my sympathies don't go too mainstream in this fandom ;D

Date: 2008-07-23 09:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lodessa.livejournal.com
I really do intend to. Probably sometime in the next two months once I get everything unpacked at the new place. Jeremy will want to rewatch everything I am sure since his dad just returned the season 3 dvds.

My sympathies rarely are.

Date: 2008-07-23 09:57 pm (UTC)
ext_13247: (Default)
From: [identity profile] novin-ha.livejournal.com
Thanks! [livejournal.com profile] girlupnorth made it, after we decided that basically BSG is a story about a group of people who faced and fought the civilisation of love [Cylons, not to be mistaken with Christianity].

I love your icon.

Date: 2008-07-23 09:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lodessa.livejournal.com
I've missed all my icons. Almost like they were friends themselves.

Date: 2008-07-23 08:59 pm (UTC)
hamsterwoman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hamsterwoman
I have no thoughts on Dr.Who or D&D, but glad to see you're back!

Date: 2008-07-23 09:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lodessa.livejournal.com
I'm glad to be back, how have you been?

Date: 2008-07-23 09:27 pm (UTC)
hamsterwoman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hamsterwoman
Pretty good! Went to Yosemite for a couple of days, celebrated the kids' birthdays, got myself addicted to Temeraire -- the usual :)

Hope you accomplished everything that you wanted to accomplish during the LJ break!

Date: 2008-07-23 09:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lodessa.livejournal.com
I have been hearing that those are really really good.

Enough of the spirit of the idea, although perhaps not so dramatically as I might have hoped.

Date: 2008-07-23 09:53 pm (UTC)
hamsterwoman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hamsterwoman
They are pretty awesome! I actually didn't think I would like them, because I'm not into military fantasy or alternative (relatively modern) history or the period all that much, but the narration is utterly charming, and they're quite funny, and the kind of books that suck you in and you stay up late finishing them. I highly recommend!

Date: 2008-07-23 09:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lodessa.livejournal.com
I will move them up my list then, since you are the second person whose opinion in books I highly respect to recommend them to me in the last few weeks.

Date: 2008-07-23 09:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spectralbovine.livejournal.com
I was seriously going to IM you this week, all, "Dude, how are you doing, Miss I Haven't Posted in Yonks?" I hope you are generally well, and I like you.

Date: 2008-07-23 09:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lodessa.livejournal.com
Aw. I like you too, Cow. It's been really hard for me to resist LJ. I had to have [livejournal.com profile] sophia_helix change my password and not tell me what it was.

Date: 2008-07-23 09:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spectralbovine.livejournal.com
Were you extra productive?

Date: 2008-07-23 09:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lodessa.livejournal.com
Somewhat... though not as much as I had hoped.

Date: 2008-07-24 12:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nentari.livejournal.com
The mindwipe struck me hard, because that was the same fate that Jamie and Zoe suffered when the Second Doctor was captured by the Time Lords, who put him on trial for interference and sent his companions back to their own timelines with theit memories erased. You do get to see when they return that they're experiencing some confusion, so there's room to expect that they've botched the mindwipe in some way with those two.
This, of course, gives me a whole new level of tragedy to what happened to Donna - he saw two people that he loved get their memories of him erased, and now he's forced to do the same to someone he loves just as much. Of course, the Time Lords did it because they were self-righteous bastards while the Doctor had no choice, but I'm sure it's still eating him up inside.
After watching the finale, I wrote a new chapter for my girl!Doctor fic, in which I threw a hint of what I believe happened to Donna by making Jamie browse through a bookshelf in the TARDIS and seeing a book entitled Exploring the World: The Travelling Journals of Donna Noble (2008-2050). Somehow, I think it would be a fitting future for her. :)

Date: 2008-07-24 02:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lodessa.livejournal.com
Yeah, I sort of recalled that was the case.

I seriously am of the belief that Donna will find her way back to adventures and possibly the Doctor, because SHE WAS GOING TO TRAVEL WITH HIM FOREVER.

Date: 2008-07-24 02:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nentari.livejournal.com
Let's hope she'll come back. Martha is absolutely amazing (I'm currently halfway through watching season 3), but Donna was the ideal companion for Ten, with the power of putting him in his place whenever he needed and taking no crap from him.

SHE WAS GOING TO TRAVEL WITH HIM FOREVER.
AND SO WAS JAMIE!
I think some people might take a really twisted message from this: those who were going to travel with the Doctor forever will remember nothing of their adventures. Ack.
(and it makes me wonder what happened with the Doctor's other "forever" companion, Ace, since we've never seen her leave in canon...)

Date: 2008-07-24 02:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lodessa.livejournal.com
I don't think she'll come back come back like as a regular character, but I would not be surprised to see her pop up again or even a few more times.

Yes. Martha is probably my favorite but Donna was best for Ten, because she was a grown up completely and didn't take crap from him and wanted the adventures and not the Doctor himself. Also she combined the best attributes of Martha and Rose in a way, she was the everywoman but she was also totally clelver.

That is a really interesting idea, and possibly fruitful or possible evidence of lazy storytelling that they haven't thought of any other way to deal with the issue.

God, I can't believe we are going to have to wait until 2010.

Date: 2008-07-24 03:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nentari.livejournal.com
Oh yeah, with Catherine Tate's other commitments, it would be very difficult to have Donna back as a full-time companion unless something this drastic were to happen again. I know Catherine is looking forward to doing more Who, so we never know.

In many ways, Donna is like one of the Doctor's first companions, Barbara. I don't know how familiar you are with Classic Who, but Ian and Barbara were the teachers of the Doctor's granddaughter, Susan (Ian taught Science, and Barbara History). Barbara is the only "official" television companion besides Donna who was over 30 (there's a debate over whether Sara, Grace and Astrid can count as companions, and in the Big Finish Audios the Sixth Doctor travels with another History teacher, Evelyn, who is in her late fifties) and so she was also fully grown up, refused to take crap from the Doctor and was the main responsible for the love he has of humans and planet Earth to this very day. Oh, and she also ran over Daleks with a big truck, which made her the coolest of the cool. There were several occasions in which it seemed that RTD and his writers had been watching some of Barbara's serials before they wrote Season 4, so I feel that this parallelism between Donna and Barbara must have been intentional.

God, I can't believe we are going to have to wait until 2010.
Blame David Tennant. He's the one who decided to spend 2009 doing Shakespeare.

Date: 2008-07-24 03:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lodessa.livejournal.com
My Classic Who knowledge is very patchy but that makes sense.

Sigh. I mean I know that in a few months I will have mostly forgotten about wanting more and be surprised when it comes back, but for the moment I am feeling very bereft without it.

Date: 2008-07-24 03:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nentari.livejournal.com
The strongest example people seem to find of the parallels between Donna and Barbara is in The Fires of Pompeii. That episode has tons of Classic Who references, but the one that stands out more strongly is connected to Donna trying to tell people about the eruption in order to save some lives and the Doctor telling her about the dangers of changing history, which seems to have its origins in the First Doctor serial The Aztecs, in which Barbara tries to stop human sacrifices and the Doctor tells her about those same dangers.

My eagerness to watch more Who is more or less under control, as I have a ton of stories in my possession (Season 3, both seasons of Torchwood, The Sarah Jane Adventures and several Classic serials - including The Aztecs) waiting to be watched.
And, of course, I've discovered the Sims 2 game, and have been playing with lots of Doctor Who characters. This is my latest addition to the Who neighbourhood:

Image
Image
Image

Date: 2008-07-24 03:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lodessa.livejournal.com
Yeah, I have so much backlog to watch that it's not like I am short on entertainment... I just still would like more Who... even though I have no time to watch it.

Date: 2008-07-24 03:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nentari.livejournal.com
Yeah, lack of time is infuriating when there's so many things on our to-watch list. Still, I'll start my holidays in August so I'll have plenty of time to catch up.

Date: 2008-07-24 03:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lodessa.livejournal.com
I actually ended up buying Torchwood DVDs, which I haven't had a chance to watch yet. Right now I am in the midst of Dresden Files and Babylon 5 and my "to watch" list is ridiculously long. Plus they've just announced they are making a Law and Order: UK with Jaime Bamber from BSG and Freema Agyeman, which has me ridiculously excited.

Date: 2008-07-24 03:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nentari.livejournal.com
I've watched some episodes from The Dresden Files - but again, time constraits limited it. My father has saved them to DVD, though, so I'll be able to watch them whenever I can. Season 1 of Torchwood is leaving me a bit cold, as I don't feel the characters are very well fleshed-out (Jack included) but I'll keep on watching as I want to see what happened to Jack before the S3 finale of Who, and I was told TW's S2 is much better on that aspect. Plus, since Journey's End implied that Mickey and Martha will be joining Torchwood when it returns (and the Who spinoffs won't be delayed like the parent show) it works as yet another incentive to carry on with this.
Sarah Jane Adventures, on the other hand, seems to be really good overall, but I'll only start on it after I finish with Who's S3 and TW's S1.

Date: 2008-07-24 03:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lodessa.livejournal.com
Well there are only 12 episodes of Dresden Files total (it probably would have still waited though if a friend hadn't lent it to me without my asking).

[livejournal.com profile] sophia_helix says she feels like Torchwood always strikes her as a show you used to love that's really gone downhill but you still love the characters and hope it will go back to being good so you keep watching... except it was never actually good in the first place. But yeah, the Martha and Mickey thing made me want to watch it at last.

I am in Season 5 of 5 of Babylon 5 and it's so good but I just need more time to watch it.

Also the same friend lent me the new Robin Hood season 1.

Date: 2008-07-24 03:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nentari.livejournal.com
Yeah, it's a shame they've cancelled it after only a handful of episodes. *shifty eyes* I loved what I've seen so far.

[livejournal.com profile] sophia_helix says she feels like Torchwood always strikes her as a show you used to love that's really gone downhill but you still love the characters and hope it will go back to being good so you keep watching... except it was never actually good in the first place.
Yeah, that's a perfect definition of Torchwood. :/

Martha had already appeared in a couple of S2 episodes, so that's something else that is sparkling my curiosity, since it means we can already see how her interaction with the rest of the team will be like. And I'm looking forward to having more friendly bitching between Jack and Mickey, since they've only actually interacted with each other in Boomtown and Journey's End so far.

Date: 2008-07-24 03:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lodessa.livejournal.com
It's pretty good, although they are a few awkward things (Dresden Files).

Yeah, I'm really very curious about Torchwood and I was always sad that Mickey went away just when he'd become awesome. Plus Martha is always a good thing in my book.

Date: 2008-07-24 04:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nentari.livejournal.com
I think everybody was sad with Mickey's departure (his character growth was amazing) but the slashers got over it quickly, thanks to Jake. *grins*

Date: 2008-07-24 04:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lodessa.livejournal.com
Indeed. But his being back is still a huge yay.

Date: 2008-07-24 04:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nentari.livejournal.com
But of course - especially if they let him play with big guns.

Mickey + big guns = awesome

Date: 2008-07-24 04:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lodessa.livejournal.com
True story.

Date: 2008-07-24 03:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shakanaman.livejournal.com
welcome back!
it was good to see you the other night. :)
sorry i was kinda out of it... but there should be more get togethers.

Date: 2008-07-24 02:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lodessa.livejournal.com
Agreed on both counts. I'm sorry you were feeling so lousy but it was great to see you and hopefully there will be a lot more of that. Plus Soviet Narnia is v. cute.

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